22 - How to Evaluate Suspicious Information on the Internet

How can you tell if that enticing internet headline is reasonable or nonsense? How do you know if someone in particular is a credible source of information? Today we explore these questions via one particular example that came up this week.

 

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[00:00:00] Intro Sequence

[00:03:15] Hello everyone and welcome to another edition of the Aspire healthy living podcast. I'm your host John Oden. I'm very excited to be here with you on a beautiful early fall day. We found a very nice outdoor filming location which is on a nature trail so there will probably be some people going by. But we have located a pretty out of the way area where it looks like we're not going to be disturbed. We navigated a number of sound disturbances which we think we found a good resolution to and we've found a good filming spot. So today we're going to be talking about a very interesting topic a very practical topic which is how to separate kind of quackery claims on the Internet versus you know real claims on the Internet because the Internet is such an amazing...

[00:04:09] It's an amazing technology in the sense that we have all of the world's information that is basically ever existed and we're constantly generating even more information and we're recording that and analyzing it. So it's an amazing time in that people have access to so much information than they did before. As somebody who can remember you know the world before the internet and pretty much you know the last generation that's probably going to remember before the Internet that. We used to not have access to all the world's information at our fingertips. We used to have to use things like libraries and actual physical books. And so it's fantastic that we have access to all this all this massive amount of information both historical way and current. But with that we also have access to kind of the most problematic claims that have been made throughout history or another way of saying that is kind of your snake oil salesman type of person. I guess that's an idiomatic expression relating to something that used to happen.

[00:05:16] But basically there's always somebody who's looking to manipulate other people always looking to take advantage of other people for their own personal gain. And it's really helpful to have some basic tools to help analyze what is going on in those sort of situations. It's very useful to have tools to analyze. OK this is a reasonable person this is somebody that I should probably pay attention to or know this person is not a reasonable person. And you know this is a quackeries situation. So we think it will be real practical I do want to talk about a couple of other subjects at the top before we get into this main main topic. The first is I want to talk about the sleep stories that we've recently come out with.

[00:06:00] If you're only watching the video version the last two episodes were actually not available on video because they were sleep oriented and so they were meant to be listened to in an audio fashion so if you miss those you might want to go check those out on the Web site or via your favorite podcasting it out.

[00:06:17] But it's basically one of them is talking about what sleep stories are about. And one of them is our very first sleep story where I have attempted to weave a tale which is you know fictional in nature and helps you get to sleep.

[00:06:32] And I and I try and read that in a relaxing way and build in other literary devices that help the mind relax. I've been using it myself.

[00:06:41] I've gotten a lot of benefit from it and I'm really energized to prepare the next one so I like to say on this show that it's an audience driven show and please do participate.

[00:06:53] And we go through all the different ways to participate at the bottom of her website which is aspire123.com but I kind of put out the original sleep story is kind of an experiment.

[00:07:06] I had never created a sleep story before and it was just an overwhelmingly popular.

[00:07:12] It was our most successful Facebook post of all time which was around 600 likes and maybe 60 shares something like that which is a high watermark for us. That's about three times the current number of people who like our page. And of course you know we're just getting started out we're expecting those numbers to dramatically increase in the future. But it was very exciting.

[00:07:33] It's exciting to see. It's exciting to see the entire. It's. It's exciting to see it catch on. It's exciting to see it have a widespread appeal.

[00:07:45] And of course as I like to say this is an audience driven show so since there seems to be a lot of interest in sleep stories I'm going to start producing sleep stories on a fairly consistent basis. So right now I'm producing this podcast on a once a week basis kind of the main the main episode of me talking about something talking about something that's useful and practical for your life. But I'm going to try and supplement that with a sleep story. I'm not sure if I'm going to do that weekly or exactly what the frequency on that is going to be but I'm working on the second one now. I'm very excited about it. I think it may actually turn out to even be better than the first one which I found to have turned out very well. I'll say listening to the first lead story I think I've listened to it three times and I had fallen asleep each of the three times. So anecdotally that's that's positive evidence. But please do let me know.

[00:08:37] But since it is since it seems to be a very interesting area it seems to be an area that there's a lot of interest in we're going to go ahead and pursue putting out those episodes so I'm thinking about potentially releasing one sleep story a week. Let me know if that would be of interest to you or if it's too much or whatever we'll just sort of experiment as we go along. So don't hold me to that right now but that's kind of what I'm kicking around. Kicking around in my head. So that's lead story that was really cool. Secondly conversation came up in the discussion group the fire healthy living discussion discussion group on Facebook and it was something to the effect of like hey you know I know you watch a lot of documentaries can you let me know you know what are some of your favorite documentaries or whatever.

[00:09:22] And I thought that was a great idea for an article topic. So it's actually taken me. I already had a list of all my favorite documentaries but it's taken me about three weeks to go back through there and you know compare and say what are actually the very best documentaries that I can recommend to other people and I've come up with a list which is my favorite 10 documentaries which are all currently available for free on the internet. I don't know if they will be available in the future but I will try to keep the links up you know updated as realistically possible.

[00:09:53] So go ahead and click the link in the show notes or just visit the Web site I think link in the show notes would probably be a more direct way to get there. Click on the link in the show notes and that will show you my picks for the top 10 best free documentaries on the Internet. There's a lot of interesting stuff there spanning a wide variety of subjects and in general I think they cover. I think they're pretty credible So we're going to get into the discussion about credibility and analyzing credibility to today.

[00:10:21] So I didn't want to include you know a bunch of crazy documentaries. I think they're all pretty reasonable. The one there is one that I you know I'm not it's about nuclear power and I'm a nuclear physicist so I don't know if the claims made in the documentary are correct but I have identified that particular one in the article and drawn attention to it and said hey you know draw your own lesions.

[00:10:46] So that's at the top and then also I'm thinking about a on thinking about experimenting with some additional some additional formats for the pod cast and these would probably again be released more frequently or I guess what I'm saying is I'm going to continue releasing this podcast weekly. I may also start releasing sleeve stories weekly and I am toying with the idea of even experimenting with other sorts of episodes or other types of ways of making episodes and if any one of those individual experiments really catches on that I'll probably start producing those on a weekly basis as well.

[00:11:25] So one idea I had had was kind of like a radio call in show type of the type of thing we do cover a wide variety of topics from relating to yourself to relate to other people.

[00:11:36] Of course the classic you know call in show is about relationships and romance and that is completely within the purview of this. You know we haven't really gotten into it too indeed are too deep so far but we have touched on it in a few areas and it is it is an area that I would be interested in exploring more deeply in the future.

[00:11:56] So all of this is a way of saying its something that I would like to experiment with and the best way to experiment with it is to have actual real questions from the audience so if you have any questions that have come up as a result of any of these podcast episodes or you just have basically any question related to how to live the very best version of your life for yourself or how to relate to other people how to understand other people how to do your part to make the world a better place. That's that's a huge topic area. So I think there's a lot of potential questions that could come from that if you would like to submit a question just go to our Web site aspira one two three dotcom. Scroll to the bottom and click submit a question. So we've made that very straightforward and it's very very simple to do. I have it on my to do list to also add a call and number like a answering machine telephone number that you can call and that way you can leave a message if you would like to verbally ask your questions so within the next day. Right now submit a question is available on the Web site. I will add the voice mail capability but that should provide us the opportunity to test out this call in show concept. Is there interest in it.

[00:13:07] I listened to two other podcasts that have a call in format and in general with this podcast I listen to a lot of I listen to a lot of different podcasts the other than mine I listen to a lot of podcasts and I like to copy what I feel is working or I like to get inspired by other people and aspects of what they're doing that I find inspirational.

[00:13:30] I try and not copy but approach in a similar fashion and maybe kind of do my own version or my own flavor of it.

[00:13:38] So there are a few of these interesting call in shows that I think have have been pretty successful and I'd like to try that out. So please do submit a question just go to the website scroll the bottom and click submit a question so to get into the main topic of today's show which is how to. When you see one of these claims on the Internet you know one of these click bait sort of headlines. I don't even want to give an example because we've all seen we've all been taken in by these enticing headlines.

[00:14:06] How do you kind of kick the tires to use the idiomatic expression but how do you analyze:

[00:14:12] Is this a reasonable claim or is this not a reasonable way and is this coming from a reasonable person or is this not a computer.

[00:14:22] And that's what we're going to kind of get into today. And I want to incorporate a little bit more of a story format or I'm trying to get better at this craft of being a podcast.

[00:14:33] And it seems to me when I've I've listened to the episodes and when I'm comparing kind of what do I feel like were the most successful episodes compared to what do I think have been the less successful episodes now that we've done 20 or so. It seems like the the more successful episodes include like a story element where I'm I'm sharing somebody else's story or I'm sharing a story for my life so I'm going to try and I'm going to try and experiment with doing that here.

[00:15:01] And so I had an experience this week where somebody sent me a link to a book and the book was available free online and it was basically like hey John what do you think about this book. Have you heard about this author. You know it was he was inquisitive in nature with Definitely non-dogmatic in nature and I started analyzing this person and I just I found the experience of.

[00:15:26] Really peeling back the onion and seeing what what who is this person. I mean I still know I still have not met this person but I have now formed an opinion and I'm going to use the analysis of this person's claims and the analysis of who this person is. That's sort of an example like Come with me on this journey of investigating one particular piece of information I found on the internet where I was referred to by another reader or another audience member remember I'm really trying for this to be an audience led show. So when somebody sends me a book and says Hey what do you think about this author. I'm going to spend time to think about what do I think about this author and in doing that it turned out to be a pretty interesting experiment.

[00:16:06] So at first I wanted to talk about this author in particular and I was going to you know at first I was going to do it in sort of a confrontational way where I say the guy's name by name and then I go through all the things that I think are problematic about this person or I don't know if they're problematic but they sort of they seem a little bit suspicious.

[00:16:28] From my perspective and so we're going to talk about that. And then I thought OK well if I'm going to use this person's name it's only fair that I like send him a copy of this episode so that he has the opportunity to defend himself and then I thought to myself Well that seems like unnecessarily antagonistic because it's not really about this person per se it's about what kind of thought process can you go through when you encounter a new piece of information could be on the Internet it could be anywhere but when you encounter piece of information and you're thinking like should I take this information seriously here's this infor is this a joke. You know what is the thought process to go through and I've mentioned some of my professional qualifications in previous episodes. But as a former Texas state debate champion and national competitive debater analytical thinking in high school I was in college analytical thinking is one of my areas of expertise so I really I really think that there are some useful tools that we can get into that will be very very practical for you so that you don't accidentally buy into some sort of ridiculous claim that seems seductive. It's been it's been phrased in a seductive way but but it's really specious for a variety of different reasons. And so these really get into. There's a variety of ways of tricking people so that so that claims which are not credible appear credible. And so if you're aware of the ways to trick people it's harder to trick you. It's pretty much as simple as that.

[00:17:56] And so I thought about potentially using the guy's name then I decided not to use the guy's name.

[00:18:03] So we're going to use kind of like a pseudonym and I've already said like I think this guy is not credible. I don't have 100 percent proof positive evidence that this guy's not credible but I have a lot of.

[00:18:16] I have a large preponderance of warning signs which make me feel like this is not a credible person. Now we will get into it at towards the end of the episode more like. Specific structures of fallacy so even a non-credible person can say something that's true. So just judging what somebody is saying based on who they are is not.

[00:18:38] You don't completely want to judge based on who somebody is but you do want to understand who somebody is so that you have kind of the context of where they're coming from when they're when you're evaluating how they're speaking to you.

[00:18:53] And so I had like a quick three I guess 3 item or three question framework that I may write up in an article I probably should write of in an article this week but that will help you when you're in the situation so you see something you see a claim and you think like oh this is an interesting claim. What it would do I think about this quaint So there's three questions that I want that I'm proposing it would be useful to ask if you're in that situation and the first question is Who is this person who is saying these things in the first place. OK. Who are they. What are their qualifications. Where are they coming from. OK everybody has a sense of place. Everybody has a sense of perspective. And in general it kind of makes sense to take somebody's credibility into consideration. So I don't want to make any specific examples but you know somebody who is a black belt in martial arts has a more credible voice when it comes to the subject of martial arts than somebody who's never studied martial arts before. I mean it's just basic credibility so question one who is saying this to me.

[00:20:02] Question two why are they saying this to me. In a lot of instances on the Internet people are trying to sell you something in a lot of instances in life people are trying to get money out of you or manipulate money out of you or something like that. So when you come across a claim and you're not sure if it's credible or not it's it's useful to say who is saying this to me. And why are they saying this to me. Are they trying to sell me something. Are they trying to convince me of something. Are they trying to win me over to their political side or what is their goal in speaking to me in the first place. And then three is what they're saying to me logically valid. You know setting aside who they are and what they're why they're bringing the subject up in the first place. Is is it a. Is it a credible thing they're saying. Does it make logical sense. So we're going to explore like I said we're going to explore this individual claim I came across and in doing so we're going to sort of get into the use of these three questions. We're going to get into what does it look like when you take these questions and you apply them to a specific situation.

[00:21:08] So I thought it would be kind of helpful and a little bit of fun and sort of a tongue in cheek way to kind of make up a little nickname for this person instead of offering them directly by name because again it's not really about them personally it's about the thinking style to evaluate whether somebody is credible. So I'm going to go that since I think this person is a little is probably not credible. I'm going to go ahead and jokingly call this person Dr. Faken Stein OK. And it's a little bit of. You know again it's a little bit tongue in cheek take it for what it is. I'm I'm not there's no reason to take ourselves overly seriously. So we're going to investigate the mysterious case of Dr. Faken Stein here. And Dr. Faken Stein's claims and Dr. Faken Stein's book. So I again I'm I've received. I want to say it was in the discussion group but it may have been somebody who directly Facebook messaged me and they Facebook message me and they said hey have you heard about this author and the name of the book was something like you know your your terminal disease it can be cured or something like that. So. It's it's one of these things where the client the name of the book is already kind of a fantastic claim and makes you think well what does that what does this person know that every other doctor in the world doesn't know about you know terminal disease. And that was my first impression of the book as I began.

[00:22:34] And I should say I still have not read the book I merely investigated who this person is and I've looked at the table of contents and it went back to the original person and I said hey I have these concerns about the author I have these concerns for the following reason. But it doesn't seem like his recommendations are too crazy or anything like that so I'm reserving judgment. But again we're going through what that thought process was. So first of all the title of the book was already a little bit like OK this person is this person is is seems to be using emotional manipulation potentially that's just a way to sell books potentially that's just a way to get attention but that's OK that kind of gave me an initial. Maybe we should look a little bit deeper here. Now he's again his doctor fake Einstein.

[00:23:21] And again obviously that's not his real name. But he does use the word doctor. So he says doctor. And then you know presumably his real name or potentially a pen name. But he definitely uses doctor and I'm looking at the front cover and I'm not going to show any of this material because this is probably you know I'm probably not authorized to show this material but I'm just going to I'm going to describe what I'm seeing to see if you can get an idea. The head is is in huge letters about how you know the disease that you're going to die from you don't have to die from if you read this book in the background it's listing all the scary diseases and medical sounding parts of the body like it says because pituitary. Here it says limb here it's his brain here. Degenerative here. So it's got kind of a kind of a creepy background to it like be scared because you have a terminal disease. And then the fact that Dr. Faken Stein is a doctor it says Doctor twice on the cover here. So I'm like OK he seems to be pushing very hard on like this is medical. This is medical advice is what it is what it sounds like he is saying obviously I'm not giving medical advice. But from the cover of the book he's talking about diseases he's calling himself a doctor twice. It's feeling like I'm going to be getting you know advice about what I should be doing from a medical basis.

[00:24:49] So I flipped to the back and I see a picture of the guy we'll get into what the guy looks like later but I see a number of other references to the fact that this guy who's a doctor let me just count him now there's three references to Dr. Faken Stein which. You know some of which are abbreviated as Dr. Stein. So sometimes they give out as they lay out his full names sometimes they have his abbreviated name. So there's Dr. Faken Stein and there's Dr. Stein but there are three of those are on the back. So just from the front and the back cover the man has called himself a doctor five different times.

[00:25:25] And I guess you know you probably you probably surmised from the name that I gave the guy but he is you know he has masculine and gender so it seems to me that the man is setting up a context of saying I'm a medical person I'm giving you medical advice. OK. I'm just walking you through these are my first impressions of the book. And also the fact that when you're like listing diseases all over the cover page and like listing medical types of. Medical types but like people are not putting like limb on their on their on their book cover.

[00:26:03] It sounds medically. That's all I can really say about it. So. So I opened the book. You probably hear some squirrels running around as I mentioned we're out in nature and Hazor is just going to be some distracting noises and that's completely fine. But I opened the book and then.

[00:26:21] The initial impression that I had was then further reinforced by the fact that it says his name and title. Dr. Faken Stein at the top of every single page of course it says like Dr. Faken Stein's miracle 30 a day you know a program or whatever. I don't want to use the exact wording because again it's not about him it's just about the general impressions that I had. But he seems to want to remind the reader on every single page that he's a doctor. So.

[00:26:52] He's he seems to be putting a lot of investment into this Doctor stuff. OK so I come across this page that says warning and it's like a preface page that says a warning from our lawyers. This book is published under the First Amendment of the United States Constitution which grants the right to publicly sorry which grants the right to discuss openly and freely all matters of public concern and to express viewpoints no matter how controversial or unaccepted they may be. OK. Yes. I'm a I'm a big believer in the first amendment.

[00:27:28] I don't know if we've ever gotten into it but I believe the First Amendment should be applied to the maximum extent of the law. I think as far as political speech goes. And by the way the First Amendment is about political speech it's not about medical speech but the first amendment I think should be construed as broadly as possible.

[00:27:46] And I think that is the basis of a free society but it is a little bit suspicious that like the First Amendment is the first thing this person mentions and it's also seems to be a bit of a red flag to say they are characterizing their own ideas as quote unquote controversial and quote unquote unacceptable. So we haven't even encountered the ideas yet. But even from the author's perspective the author's ideas are not expected. I'm sorry even from the authors perspective their ideas are not accepted even from the authors perspective. Their ideas are controversial. So that kind of sets this up like yeah this person could be correct but this person is telling me something controversial. They're actually telling me that it is controversial before they even tell it to. So that's kind of a red flag. I was going to say Red flag number one. But the fact that Dr. Faken Stein said he was a doctor six times at this point before even getting into the content has made me a little bit suspicious so we're going to continue to dig a little bit deeper. Dr. Faken Stein continues in this supposed quote unquote warning from the doc from the lawyers. However medical groups and pharmaceutical companies have finally infiltrated and violated our sacred Constitution. It's not exactly clear how a pharmaceutical company could violate the Constitution and if they are really violating the constitution now they would not be in jail.

[00:29:12] The Constitution is merely a governmental document of about constraining the power of the centralized government.

[00:29:20] So it's really not clear to me how a pharmaceutical company or a medical group could violate the sacred Constitution but will go ahead and leave that as an aside for now. They continue therefore we're forced to give the following warnings and it says warnings in like all capital letters and in general this person has a style of like their writing and then just an occasional word will be completely capitalized like they're yelling at you. So you get kind of this like infomercial vibe like they're sort of yelling at you their message and it made me feel like well why are you yelling at me like if you're a reasonable person and you have reasonable opinions why don't you just express them. You know in a way in a format. In a logical format like tell me what your reasonable ideas are. You know Dr. Faken Stein. So therefore we're forced to give you the following warnings. If you are ill or have been diagnosed with any disease please consult a medical doctor before attempting any natural healing program. OK that sounds reasonable. Any one of the programs in this book could be potentially dangerous even lethal especially if you're seriously ill. OK one has to wonder why his program might be lethal. Why it might be lethally dangerous but maybe that's just the lawyers you know trying to minimize liability. We can let that slide. Therefore any natural method learn about in this book it may cause harm instead of the benefit you U.S.. Ask your doctor first. Now that's an all capital letters. Ask your doctor first. Remember that. Remember that.

[00:30:59] But basically negates everything that comes before it. So when you say ask your doctor first. But that's basically saying like don't actually ask your doctor first it's it's a sneaky way of phrasing it where like they can if they ever get sued because somebody dies they could say well I told him to ask their doctor first.

[00:31:17] But like subconsciously they're saying like no no you shouldn't be asking your doctor first ask your doctor first. But remember the vast majority of doctors have no education in natural healing methods and herbal medicine. They will probably discourage you from trying any of the programs.

[00:31:40] Well considering these men you know these programs they don't say their medical programs or nutritional programs but it seems to be basically like a diet program and an eating guidelines and stuff like that. So it's not it's not totally clear that a doctor would not know you know the latest science about eating well any way when you say that the vast majority of doctors have no education in natural healing methods I would say that's true in the sense that doctors have medical training in medical services like yes natural healing is a bit of another thing. But if you were to go to your doctor and your doctor was like no that's going to kill you if you do it.

[00:32:20] I would not assume that the natural healer knows what to do above and beyond. You know the Western science and the you know potentially that's potentially that's my bias but I'm somebody who's open to Chinese medicine and somebody that's open to it. Are you dating medicine for that. I'm not exactly sure how to say it but the Indian approach to herbal medicine so it's not that I think that there's anything wrong with herbal medicine. I'm just saying like the point of this page is to keep them from getting sued if somebody died. And the way to do that is to go say ask a doctor. But then they undermine. The credibility of doctors.

[00:32:59] And also you know we've already pointed out this person is heavily heavily investing in the fact that they are a doctor you should listen to them because they're a doctor. Now we're sort of getting the inference here but like they're probably not a medical doctor because they're saying that medical doctors do not have training in the area that they're going to talk about.

[00:33:18] So I see that as another red flag. Anytime somebody says like well don't listen to doctors or look don't listen to science. I'm willing to hear the argument. I'm willing to hear their position. I like to be very open minded. But you have to say like yeah I mean like the reason we can fly a rocket ship to the moon is like because of the scientific method.

[00:33:38] The reason why we all have electricity and like there are just so many things that we would not have if it weren't for the scientific method. So it has built up a lot of credibility with me in the area of discovering truth. Now when it comes to morality and ethics and like ethical decision making then yes I think that there's some there's some areas for improvement potentially. But anyway so that's another that's another page that was kind of worrisome. At which point we get to now I flip to the back of the book which is the guy's documentary which is the guy's biography. And I was going to go through that in detail but I actually found a more detailed version of it online so I thought like oh let's just go to the more detailed version and the more detailed version was basically like this guy had found it and has some sort of association for herbal medicine. And so the association in talking about you know how expert they are on herbal medicine. They're talking up this guy Dr. Faken Stein and they're saying well we're founded by Dr. Faken Stein and like you know Dr. Faken Stein is so wonderful and he studied with like these other people that you haven't heard of who are. Also probably people who are calling themselves doctors but are not in any way medical doctors. I

[00:34:53] will say I do not know enough about the history of herbal medicine to know if these people that they're referring to were quacks or not. OK. So the page starts with. Kind of a typical third person biography were they like have his bio and it's one page and it talks about Dr. Faken Stein in the third person.

[00:35:10] And then the rest of the page is first person from Dr. Faken Stein's perspective. And it's you know Dr. Faken Stein talking about his qualifications and his journey and all that. So I thought this would be a great way to dive into you know Dr. Faken Stein's qualifications. And I had already formed some impressions from reading his biography but since you know his bio page but since this gets into a little bit more detail of this would be a better one to get into. So let's get into it. You know I'm basically going to paraphrase some of these some of these things in terms of like his name and things like that. So Dr. Faken Stein is one of the foremost authorities on natural healing and herbal medicines in the United States. Well OK. Says you who said you know it's easy to say like oh I'm the foremost world expert on everything.

[00:35:57] Well of course you you say that because you're this is written by an organization founded by you. They have a they have a vested interest in building you up as a credible person. Dr. Faken Stein you sorry Dr. Faken Stein operated a natural cure clinic first in New York and later in Southern California for almost 20 years. OK. So fact one we know about the man is that he operated a clinic first it was in New York and then it was in Southern California. And this clinic was operated for 20 years.

[00:36:28] Now to me the fact that a business was open and the man was able to swindle people for 20 years does not in any way prove that he wasn't a swindler for the past 17 years he continued to teach throughout the United States Canada and Europe and Asia which kind of begs the question like why isn't he engaged in clinical practice anymore and we will get to that momentarily. He has designed natural therapy programs which have assisted tens of thousands of people to create so-called miracles and regain their health. That's about as specific as it gets in terms of evidence of this person's qualifications. And I didn't mention that on the cover of the book since they're talking about people with terminal illness. If he's only talking about people who have who have been told that they're not going to live and he applies any kind of treatment to them.

[00:37:22] Then statistically like some of them are going to survive just because of probability and also because of the placebo effect. If you're not familiar with the placebo effect if you see something that appears like medical care a lot of the time the mind actually has the ability to heal the body. So the reason why.

[00:37:42] One of the reasons why there's a control group in science is because the placebo effect is so amazingly strong in healing people that you need a controlled study where you know 50 percent of the people actually went into the same clinic and receive no care and thought they received care because then both groups get the effect of the mind healing itself. OK. But when they talk about this evidence so it's not it's not in a sort of controlled experiment. It's a group of people who are already you know supposedly destined to die so there's no downside if his technology just kills people then there's no real proof of that because he was only using it on people who were going to die anyway. But more to the point like if you have this revolutionary method that's really going to save humanity why would you not release that evidence in medical journals. You know where is the peer reviewed evidence for these quote unquote tens of thousands of people who have had so-called quote unquote miracles here.

[00:38:43] And that's another thing. You know you have to zoom in on what you have to. We're unraveling the onion here where peeling the onion and we're seeing. We're seeing post-the overexplain the type of words we're seeing. Words like miracle. OK when somebody says like oh I have a miracle cure I've miraculously done X Y and Z. You're kind of thinking to yourself like OK what are you trying to sell me buddy. And this person is trying to sell you something isn't that interesting. So that's that's that's a data point. We're going to get into here in a second but if somebody is literally coming to you and saying I am a person who does miracles or you know we are an organization founded by this man and this man is literally a miracle worker they're using the word miracle. That's another red flag. So I'm just counting these things up like we've had a claim that tens of thousands of people have been saved. But there's no evidence we can actually go to look at. OK if they said like we have saved tens of thousands of people and then they had a footnote and it was like Journal of the American Medical Association I would have gone and read that article so I could report back to y'all like I was willing to do whatever amount of foot work was necessary to look into this guy. And there is no footprint footnote.

[00:39:56] And that's noteworthy because if you really did have a case study that showed tens of thousands of people following your therapy and it actually working you would be copying that study and you would be putting it on your side and you would be linking to it everywhere. But the fact that he just makes a claim and then there's no evidence to back up that claim. That's a red flag. So I'm not counting up these red flags but we're starting to see a lot of red flags accumulate which are saying like is this a credible person. Is this a person who says things that are reasonable that people listen to. OK. In 1994 his clinic was closed down by the FDA in America in which the practice of herbal medicine but not the sale is still illegal. OK.

[00:40:45] So what we know is he had a clinic and it was closed down by the federal government because he was engaging in legal practices. It is possible that maybe he was being persecuted and he has like the answer to health and all that but it is very suspicious when the government comes and shut you down for engaging in illegal activity. That's just that's another red flag. And it also also makes you wonder like how successful was this clinic if the government is coming in and shutting it down. OK. If it really was like that successful you would think that shutting it down would cause you know a popular backlash and would cause it to be reopened.

[00:41:26] So that's another suspicious thing. I will continue. He's considered an innovator a purist even an extremist by many of his colleagues but to his patients he is considered the man who has guts to say and do what others were afraid to. And setting aside the fact that that's not a grammatically correct sentence. Again they're using extreme language. OK. Now this guy has he's a mere he's he he he. What is the exact word they used before. He has created miracles with tens of thousands of people. And he he is he is being called an extremist by his colleague. So again these are this guy's people talking about him. OK so they're saying he's considered an extremist. Very similar to that title page you know before we even get to what the guy's claims are. The guy is admitting that other people think he's an extremist. So that's another that's a red flag. And by red flag I mean like a warning sign something that says like OK this is not conclusive proof that this guy is not credible but it is a little bit suspicious and like once a once a series of suspicious things add up it's pretty reasonable to say like OK I'm not 100 percent certain but I can logically infer that like somebody with 15 red flags probably not very credible. The outcome of his work has been the achievement of miraculous and unprecedented results. Again with the word miraculous and again where is the evidence of these results. I mean if he really does have unprecedented miraculous results that means they need to be duplicated That's the scientific method.

[00:43:05] And even if they haven't been duplicated let's look at those results let's say Well what were the exact circumstances of those results were those results as a result of something else that happened at the same time. You know there's plenty of things that can be looked at. If we if we see the details of what these unprecedented results are. OK.

[00:43:25] Dr. Faken Stein is the creator of and I'm not going to mention the products by name but Dr. Frankenstein is the creator of you know X Y Z herbal products and you know X Y Z line of high quality botanical extracts So we know he's selling stuff back to the big three questions so we're beginning to answer.

[00:43:44] Who is this person and who is this person and where are they coming from with what they say. We know that he likes to say that he a doctor but he doesn't seem to be a medical doctor because he has already said that medical doctors don't know what they're talking about. And then we know that he's the creator of a line of products and he's probably going to recommend those products. He's probably going to recommend that you buy those products. His herbal formula are famous for their strength and efficacy you know says no evidence.

[00:44:18] Dr. Faken Stein also created his extremely popular dietary supplement inserts a name in the early 1980s.

[00:44:26] So he's basically listing off things he's going to potentially sell you and that makes me wonder like OK well now we know why this person is saying this stuff. This person is saying this stuff because ultimately he wants you to go down to the bottom of the page and click Buy now. You know Dr. Faken Stein also has a doctorate in natural medicine.

[00:44:46] OK so here's where we get to the why he gets to call himself a doctor. Somebody who has a doctorate gets to you know call themselves doctor although obviously they're not a medical doctor. There's a difference between an M.D. and somebody who has what is it a Ph.D. in natural medicine.

[00:45:05] Assuming he actually has a Ph.D. when usually when you talk about an advanced degree like I have a master's degree in Business Administration I have an MBA from you. It's like. When you talk about your degree typically you say what the specific degree is like was it an MBA or was it a B.A.. Like I also have a B.A. from the University of Michigan MBA in philosophy. You typically say what the degree is and where you got the degree from because you know some internet online school that like doesn't seem to really exist as a school is not the same thing as a diploma from Harvard. I mean everybody knows this right. So typically you say what the degree is and where you got the degree from.

[00:45:52] So when you say Dr. Faken Stein has a doctorate in natural medicine that's highly suspicious. OK. You're saying OK they have a doctorate and you're saying what the doctor does but you're not saying where they got the doctor it. OK. Could be from just absolutely nowhere.

[00:46:09] And I actually dug in more to the claim later it doesn't it doesn't actually give any explanation here. But other as elsewhere I found reference to where he actually got this doctorate in natural medicine and it's basically like he turned under this guy is basically his friend at an online school and his friend issued him all these degrees like there's not even a reference of him graduating high school.

[00:46:38] It's just like oh I befriended this guy and his school gave me all these degrees and one of the degrees was a quote unquote doctorate in natural medicine. So as I dug into this school this is a non-accredited school. This is a school with no oversight by a regulatory body.

[00:46:56] This is a school with no external validation that they have any academic literature any academic legitimacy whatsoever. Now as somebody who's you know a little bit more of a libertarian leaning in the political department you know I would be fine with you know a self regulating non-governmental entity. But the idea that somebody could just like set up a web page and I could set up like John Oden university dot com and just start like printing diplomas and telling people saying that people are doctors. That doesn't seem as credible as if they you know if they if the guy had a doctorate of natural medicine from Harvard then I would give it a lot more. I would give it a lot more credibility. But when you go to the Web site of the institution that issued his diploma it's like a turn of the 90s you know white background no graphics like geo cities site is what it looks like. He also holds a degree in herbal pharmacy and three degrees in iridology. Again with no reference to where these degrees came from I think they came from the same online diploma mill. I don't know what iridology is but one has to wonder like why does why does he need three degrees in the same subject. And if he really does need three degrees in the same subject wouldn't he say like he got this degree than this degree in this degree like just saying like oh I have three degrees in this subject. Either that means that it's not really a true degree and you can get a degree in like six weeks or whatever.

[00:48:28] Or it means you're lying and you don't really have that degree which is like. Now we're getting to the point of like yeah we've had so many red flags stack up that it's like really three degrees in iridology like that just that's starting to just sound like an outright lie. Like I don't know if it's an outright lie. I've not followed around the guy. But like why would you need three degrees instead of one. Why would you not mention where you got the degrees from. And why would you not mention what the actual degrees are in the first place. I mean does he have three doctorates or are there subcategories that are significant. I mean if he was really so interested in whatever the heck iridology is that he really got deep into three different areas some areas of it and he's like the world expert in these sub areas and so he has all these different degrees. It seems like he would be proud enough of those degrees to actually talk about what those degrees were. So again it's a red flag in that like and these are not lining up like somebody who has spent the time to have three entire degrees on the subject is going to take the two extra sentences to tell you what the heck those degrees are. OK so that completes like his professional qualifications section.

[00:49:39] There are some other things that are included in his bio in the book. But we're going to go ahead and get into those. And the part where Dr. Faken Stein talks about his talks about his qualifications from the first person first person. Verb tense first person perspective. So we'll go ahead and get into that now. I apprenticed with the late great doctor. I've never heard of him before. America's greatest herbalist of the last century.

[00:50:05] It's not my area so I would not necessarily know who was the greatest herbalist of last century but it seems like that is the sort of subject that there could be a high amount of disagreement about between various people. Everyone it says in all capital letters everyone who is an herbalist today has borrowed material from this man and we've already gotten into our episode about ants like anytime you're talking about everyone. That's that's a sweeping generalization which is like it's by definition false. So again it's another red flag. The guy is speaking in huge generalizations he's being overly grandiose for the evidence being offered.

[00:50:46] I studied directly under this great healer. Again he's using suspicious words like calling people great healer. I studied directly under this great healer and he awarded me degrees as an herbalist. A master herbalist an herbal pharmacist and eventually I received a doctor of herbology from his school. And by the way here he said that above in the previous bar bio it said he was a doctor.

[00:51:10] He had a doctorate in natural medicine so I guess now he is claiming he has the second doctorate in her biology. So it's like OK now this guy has what five degrees. Has not mentioned a school but supposedly he's a doctor two times over.

[00:51:32] It's a bit suspicious for my taste.

[00:51:37] I taught herbal medicine every summer for 15 years in great Britain France and Spain. I taught at Cambridge University in Cambridge England Trinity medical college in Dublin Ireland and a new and natural and natural healing schools herbal colleges and health retreats. I thought this was really interesting for a few reasons. Let's use Let's use Cambridge as an example. Why would Cambridge let a man with no actual academic qualifications teach at their university or come lecturer at their university or even like stand in the middle of the square and like act like a homeless person you know at their university. It doesn't seem like the sort of thing that would be a credit. It doesn't seem like the sort of thing that Cambridge University would do. Maybe yes it's possible but I did do an internet search and I attempted to find any record of Dr. Faken Stein speaking a Cambridge University and surprise surprise there is no record of Dr. Faken Stein making teaching any kind of class or putting on any kind of event or anything at Cambridge University. In addition I found the same bio of the bio that we got into above. I found different versions of that same bio in like 5 different places and in all the other places except for this one it also mentioned Oxford. So in every every one of the other ones it said like oh I've lectured he's lectured at Oxford and Cambridge and this one it just said Cambridge. So I guess it's possible that it was you know. Assuming it's correct it's possible that like this came out before he lectured at Oxford.

[00:53:12] But it's more like it strikes me as suspicious that Oxford got dropped out all of a sudden and of course I also searched for any record that he had taught anything or lectured or even appeared one time at Oxford and he did not. So he's mentioned to universities by name. It is possible that maybe he had one of those universities but he clearly he was not on the faculty for those universities because you have to actually be a doctor. You have to actually have a doctorate by a recognized accredited university. At least one to teach it. Those type of universities and we already know that the all of the doctorates that this guy has gotten which evidently he has two doctorates supposedly. We know that they were basically produced by diploma mills which with no actual facilities and like yeah it's theoretically possible to have a good education with no facilities but I think we can agree on actual normal university has more credibility than the non-land diploma mill. An online diploma with absolutely no accreditation no oversight by anyone no evidence that their programs work. No nothing to point to in any way shape or form that they're credible. OK obviously I cannot read the entire guy's bio and the whole diatribe. Let's skip down to the part entitled My self-education and my recognized certifications and diplomas. Let's just stop there. So now he's claiming he's self-educated. He has all these degrees but supposedly he's self-educated now. OK that seems like another red flag to me.

[00:54:43] Besides the hundred billion or so hours I spent in health food stores co-ops and herbal stores researching and trying every product I also worked in a co-op and behind the counter in an herbal pharmacy.

[00:54:56] OK first of all he did not spend 100 billion hours I understand that. Like maybe he is trying to exaggerate for dramatic effect but that is that is giving us a flavor of how this man thinks. This man is fast and loose with the facts when he's in the subject of giving facts. OK we're talking about medical evidence. We're talking about specific claims and he's even exaggerating how much time he has spent in health food stores which in and of itself spending time in health foods for stores is not any sort of qualification for anything except for potentially maybe being a manager of a health food store and trying every product. Again he's speaking in these huge generalities. I can almost guarantee he did not try every product you know he probably did not try the feminine care products. As a man. But he's using these sweeping generalizations and all of these are adding up to question marks in my mind. But I really I wanted to continue digging deeper like yes in a normal situation I probably would have like concluded the guy was a quack by now but let's go ahead and let's go and finish his bio.

[00:56:02] Keep digging a little deeper. I followed a man named person I haven't heard of Number two this guy doesn't have Dr in front of his name. The great European naturopath. Like a shadow wherever he spoke I went. I bothered and pestered him with thousands of questions and picked up everything I could before he died.

[00:56:21] So basically like he went to this other person and he went to a few of his speeches. It doesn't even show that there was any formal relationship with his other person okay now we're now we're scrolling down. This is him talking about his formal education and says I spent two years at UCLA auditing classes.

[00:56:43] OK so this is the only reference to an actual accredited university which is UCLA and he ahd it in classes. So somebody who maybe isn't as familiar with university education it may not be aware that adding classes means showing up and attending the class without actually being registered in the class. And it basically means like you should supposedly if you take him at his word it means he showed up at these classes. He wasn't actually in these classes he wasn't actually paying for these classes. He was kind of freeloading on these classes. He was not submitting homework assignments he was not getting a grade. And so he was a casual observer even if you take him at his word. But basically it means he wasn't enrolled he wasn't accountable he probably didn't even go to these classes in the first place.

[00:57:32] But even if he did auditing a class is not the same as attending the class as a student. OK. Universities are oriented towards students they're not oriented towards random people sneaking into their classes. OK. And and people who become world experts at things do not typically do that by sneaking into classes and the like you know not paying and stuff like that. I studied in their biomed library on my own naturally designed curriculum of medical slash natural healing. OK. So he he self-designed his medical curriculum that's suspicious. I think I think I think it would have been cheaper to pay tuition in the university than what I ended up paying to park my car at the hospital every day. OK. That is undoubtedly not true. So like the billions of hours it's like there's absolutely no way that the tuition to go to UCLA is is cheaper than the amount of money it costs to park to go to the library. No matter how many days he went to the library. I mean I don't run the calculation but it's probably like 10000 years of going to the library daily is not going to add up to the cost of a UCLA education. So again this is a person who is fast and loose with the facts. This is a person who is admitting that they did not go to UCLA they just like park at UCLA and like flipped through some of the books.

[00:58:53] And then there and then they're trying to make it seem like they did an immense amount of work by by making the magnitude of the parking expense seem like it's on the same level as the magnitude of paying for university of education which it's just not. I'm sorry a university education is expensive. That's why people have student loans. I apprenticed with two chiropractor's in trade for my knowledge. OK. Chiropractic has been shown as kind of a quack science I don't have time to get into it but like the guy who invented chiropractic or B I don't know what the word is for Kyra. If that's the correct word. But being a chiropractor is highly suspect. I would just I would consider that another red flag.

[00:59:36] I am certified in eight different styles of bodywork including shiatsu applied kinesiology deep tissue restructuring and trained extensively for years in polarity therapy with Dr.. Third person I haven't heard of.

[00:59:50] So again yes it's theoretically possible but in addition to this guy's doctor it's in his three degrees in iridology and his self-taught you know undergraduate education of sneaking into UCLA and supposedly watching these classes and self designing a medical curriculum in addition to that this guy has had the time to get certified in eight different styles of body work. And so one has to wonder like OK that probably means it's like a one day class and then you have the certifications like OK not probably not the biggest deal in the world. I'm certified in numerous systems of para psychology including linguistic programming and rebirthing. I think rebirthing is like multiple lives so we're getting into like very suspicious territory we're getting into like okay this person believes in like not Nessus I can't like definitively say it's not true. But like this this person seems to be attracted to as he describes extreme ways of thinking. OK. Most people do not believe in rebirthing which which I believe is having multiple lives. I received my teacher certification in hatha yoga.

[01:01:03] OK that's that's possible although one has to wonder how he had time to get his you know all the things that we just listed a second ago plus his you know his eight certifications and various body trainings in his his yoga certification. But this is the line that really galls me. Out of all the things this guy claims this is the one that just sticks with me and I'm like I just cannot accept this claim like I have not met this person I've not met Dr. Frankenstein I'm not absolutely positive that he's a fake you know quack person but I am so ridiculously suspicious of the following sentence.

[01:01:45] I spent 22 years actively in the martial arts learning three black belts. OK. I'm sorry.

[01:01:54] I spent 22 years actively in the martial arts earning three black belts. I am proficient in five other styles so this guy is saying he has three black belts and not only does he have three black belts but he he has at least a passable understanding or proficient understanding of five other styles.

[01:02:13] So this guy is basically like a martial arts Ninja Master. So let me just kind of rant about that for a second. I have studied martial arts for you know call it 20 years. It has not. It has not been continuous but I would say overall all added together probably 20 years at least 15 years. I have a black belt in Taekwondo a first degree black belt in Taekwondo. I have a blue belt in Aikido and I actively practice type. She is you know because thats part of this channel. I'm not on any sort of formal belt system in my tight journey. So I think I can say from a play from a little bit of a perspective as somebody with one black belt on you're not just going to casually get three black belts. OK that's going to be like somebody with a black belt in three different martial arts is like a professional mixed martial artist who spends all of their time every day learning martial arts and it's conceivably possible that this person did that. But it's highly unlikely that they did that while also getting to two you know doctorates or whatever. And and much less have the opportunity to get proficient in five other styles and like some like master of every kind of martial arts like it takes long enough to get a black belt in one that you're not going run around to get three black belts willy nilly.

[01:03:37] OK. And then I don't want to actually show a picture of this person because again it's not about them but I'm going to just look at a picture of this man and I'm going to describe what I see. I see a I see a bald individual with kind of like he kind of throws off like the old Jewish man vibe. He's got a beard. He looks very approachable he looks Smiley. He has kind of a Dilbert look to him. He's he's he's overweight. He's not ridiculously obese but he's definitely fat. You can see like his is fat he's wearing.

[01:04:12] He's wearing dress clothes and a tie in this shirt no coat and I mean in this picture no coat. And you can see his belly like flopping over flopping over the flopping over the belt and in general it just it does not look like a man who spends eight hours a day at the gym. It does not look like a man who has gone and mastered three martial arts and it doesn't look like a man who's living on a juice diet which seems to be a lot of his recommendations are about juicing. He doesn't actually look like a person who lives on juice. I mean he doesn't he doesn't look like a vegan so I am very very very skeptical that this guy has three black belts.

[01:04:53] I mean just you look at this guy I mean think about Dilbert's in your mind if you're familiar with the comic strip like do you think Gilbert really would have three black belts like maybe as a joke but like not for real and not while getting to different doctor it's like I'm sorry it just stretches so much credibility it's ridiculous. And then let's just for a moment consider the extremely unlikely scenario that this guy really does have three black belts and he has spent like 22 years getting these three black belts again. Then you spend the next three sentences saying what you actually got the black belts and said Well I started off in taekwondo and then that led me to Aikido which led me to a tight ship or something like that which was kind of which was kind of my journey. But if you don't even mention any of the martial arts it's kind of like well it kind of feels like you're trying to be intentionally vague that way if you run into somebody who isn't actually an expert in that martial art and they're clearly going to know that you're not a black belt then it's much more difficult to fact check. So that's why I think he's being intentionally vague in a lot of these ways because then he can't specifically be shown to be the liar that he seems to be. I'm not going to go so far as to say like OK Dr. Faken Stein is clearly a liar but what he says is highly highly highly highly suspicious and from a quick conversation with the guy I could probably tell if he's a liar or not.

[01:06:18] But I will say you know we're seeing a lot of red flags and we're not seeing a lot of evidence stacking up on the other side to say like oh this person is making credible claims with reasonable evidence. OK next section. My clinical experience and I did something where I searched for like Dr. Faken Stein and scam or you know fraud or something like that. And. The comments they seemed to actually come from like Dr. Faken Stein's company. They were so just the way they were written they were like Dr. Faken Stein's awesome. Contact him for a free brochure or whatever. So it really seemed like it was posted by his people but even the the Post talking about how awesome Dr. Faken Stein was online. They. They primarily emphasized his clinical experience and they said like oh this guy has experience in a clinical setting which again kind of feels like another way of saying like oh this guy has medical experience but we know he's not a doctor. So when they say clinic that means like this guy rented some office space and like people came into his office space and then he left they left and he was arrested and now he's making claims about what happened with these people but we're not seeing any documentation about these claims. My clinical experience using natural health and herbal medicine a big In my first clinic in New York State in the early 1970s. I moved to Southern California and continued my clinics and I believe we remember that the reason why he moved is because he was arrested for engaging in illegal activity. My clients were my clinics were open spanning three decades.

[01:07:56] Over 20 years with over 20000 patient visits in this country and abroad again says him and how are their visits abroad if his clinics are in the United States. It's not saying the visitors were from abroad. Maybe he missed where did it in a weird way. But there's no list of these 20000 people so that other people can go and check the validity of these claims. OK. The news of my success with these pay with these patients and their life threatening disease spread my clinical success became an embarrassment to the medical community and my patients thriving instead of dying became embarrassing living testimonials to the failure of modern medicine. I was arrested and my clinic was boarded up. So somebody who is really going to be an embarrassment to the medical community the way you do that is you document what you document the evidence for what you're saying and then you produce that evidence and let it be peer reviewed. So the fact that he's saying like oh I'm embarrassing the medical community but then he's not showing any specific evidence of these claims. That is highly suspect. I was arrested in my clinic was boarding up and boarded up. So is kind of implying that the reason why he was arrested is because he was so successful at healing people. And the last time I checked healing people is not a crime. What is a crime is practicing medicine when you're not a medical doctor which we have we were pretty clearly getting the impression that he's.

[01:09:27] He did that and at least that he's making claims medical type of claims that you're not allowed to make if you're not if you're nuts if you don't have the qualifications to be making those sort of claims. So he was arrested and his clinic was boarded up. Now I think that that's enough. You know we don't need to go through in any more detail why think this person does not have a very reasonable does not have a very credible perspective. And so let's go back to the three questions. Who is this person. What do they want from me. And here's what they're saying logically consistent so we didn't even get into the content of what this guy said what the guy said was basically like go again and do a lot of juicing. And I think in general like if you're eating organic healthy food that's probably a step in the right direction so the guy is not off in crazy land with his claims. It seems more like he wants to sell supplements and he wants to sell herbal products from his companies. So he's this he's this guy he seems to pretty much just be a random guy off the street. He has seemingly created this persona this doctor for Dr. Stein. He has built up Dr. Faken Stein as this person with all these qualifications and every specific reference like oh he.

[01:10:50] He was at Cambridge or whatever like there's no evidence he actually did anything in Cambridge even appeared there one time. There's no evidence that any of these claims are true. He lists degrees without reference to any university. And even like saying like oh I have three degrees in this and I have three black belts and like it seems like you have free of a lot of things that you're like not very specific about.

[01:11:14] So it's a not very credible person who's trying to sell me something on the Internet and he's doing that in sort of an infomercial way where he's capitalizing certain words to be yelling at me and things like that. That is kind of the definition of somebody who's not a credible source of information on the Internet somebody who's a credible source of information says something that seems reasonable maybe even says something that slightly stretches reasonability but they then refer you to the evidence why they're making those claims and they say you know hey I'm open to discussion.

[01:11:46] Please investigate and we'll talk further. Somebody who says somebody who is a self-described extremist and says other people think I'm an extremist and I have all these qualifications from you know online diploma mill University. Those are the sorts of thing.

[01:12:01] Those are the sorts of claims that it is extremely helpful to be skeptical of so back to this specific example I got back to our audience member and I said hey I would be highly suspicious of this person.

[01:12:13] There's a lot of red flags that have popped up with this guy. It's possible that he's reasonable. It's also possible that he's just a he kind of came up in the context of like this audience member is here again and I kind of got the impression like this was a book that advocated veganism. And so the people in the vegan community a lot of them refer back to this book he had heard about this book from a few different people.

[01:12:36] And since he was a vegan and since he knew the book advocated veganism he really wanted this guy to be credible. And I kind of got the impression like oh he's kind of disappointed that I didn't think this person was credible. But I did credit credit card reader you know I think very highly of our readers I credited the reader with having the wherewithal to ask and to say hey do you think this is a credible author.

[01:12:59] So we hope that this has been a useful example a useful example of how to think through claims when you encounter them on the internet and whether or not they're reasonable. We think that that's going to be real actionable. We think that hopefully using those tools that will help you for making you know falling for. You know it could help you to not fall for false claims but at a grander level it could help it could help you to keep from buying into something that could actually cause major problems and ruin your life. You know people who you know join a cult or something like that that might have a very negative effect on their life in the long term.

[01:13:39] And they maybe could have avoided that if they had some of these critical thinking skills too to dissect possible you know specious claims. So thank you so much for joining us on another episode of the Aspire healthy living podcast. If you enjoyed this episode please do subscribe and please do either shared on social media or tell one other person and tell them exactly why you enjoy the show. Because we work very hard to get this information out. We work very hard to produce usable content that's going to help make your life better. So please help us help other people by letting other people know. And it's a way of participating in kind of this democratic system and lending some of your power to help get the word out so please do please do do that and we look forward to speaking with you next week on the Aspire healthy living podcast.

[01:14:30] Outro